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 Post subject: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: March 31st, 2009, 4:01 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec
Hi everyone,
Us,lefties are a bit left in the left field sometimes regarding accesibility to Vintage gear.
When we find one we never know what it is exactly especially with Fender.
So I found what seems to be a P-Bass '69. But there are numerous odd things about the neck.
My main concern is the fact that the neck is dated 5 may 69 B. And B necks which refers to the size of the nut width where only produce in 1972 on P-Bass.
Because lefties instruments were probably built a bit differently then regular righties,then may be the lefties have oddities in cosmetics and measurments.

So my question is this: Anyone having a P-Bass or Jazz Bass made before 1972 and have a B stamped on the heel with the date?

Thank you,
We might be able to find some genuine oddities because of the way the basses were built in that era.

Sly


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: March 31st, 2009, 5:54 pm 
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That's the '69 P-bass that Elderly Music had, right? I'm assuming the neck was refinished, because that headstock decal is wrong for a '69.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: March 31st, 2009, 6:01 pm 
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you might find this interesting ...

Quote:
The 1969 to 1980 Neck Stamps.
This information was documented and written by Greg Gagliano, and was published in a 1998 article in 20th Century Guitar magazine.

About 150 Fenders made between 1967 and 1980 were examined. Of these, less than half had useable information. In most cases, the stamp was smudged beyond legibility or the stamps were incomplete. Many guitars had no stamped codes at all. Some guitars simply had the model name, such as "MUSTANG" stamped on the butt end of the neck in green or red ink.

This means two things for the owner of a 1969 to 1980 Fender. First, the chances of having an intact stamped code is about 50/50. Second, the dataset for making conclusions is relatively small and therefore, subject to change as new information surfaces. However, the interpretation of the two date code systems appears to be relatively straight forward and the conclusions were confirmed by pickup dates and pot dates in most cases.

The 1969 to 1971 Neck Stamps Explained.
This information was provided by Greg Gagliano. The neck stamp used from 1969 to 1971 can be extracted by working from the outside inward. For example, let’s take Telecaster Thinline (s/n 272207) with the code: 3320119B. Starting a the right we have the letter B. This appears to be the same neck width code that Fender had been using since 1962. The next digit denotes the year, in this case 9 = 1969. The next one or two digits denote the month, in this case 11 = November. The first one or two digits of the code, in this case 3, denotes the model. For Telecasters, Telecaster Thinlines, and Esquires that code is 3. For Stratocasters it is 22 and for Precision Basses it is 5. The other three digits (320) are perhaps some kind of batch or lot number. It could also be the number of instruments of this type produced for that month, but I would suspect Fender could make more than 999 of any one instrument type in a month. Hence it is probably a batch or lot number.

Here’s our P-Bass again (s/n 277983) with the code 529129B. Breaking up the code we get:

5 = code for Precision Bass
291 = batch or lot code
2 = February
9 = 1969
B = 1 5/8 inch neck width (correct for a ’69 P-Bass).


Quote:
Neck Width.
From March 1962 to 1969, Fender marked their necks with an "official" neck width letter at the butt of the neck (in front of the date code). The "B" neck width is the normal width, as used on about 99% of all Fenders from this period. All other sizes were available by special order only. Also all pre-1962 Fender necks have a 1 5/8" nut width (though I'm sure there are some exceptions, but none I have seen).

A = 1 1/2" wide at the nut.
B = 1 5/8" wide at the nut (normal size).
C = 1 3/4" wide at the nut.
D = 1 7/8" wide at the nut.


found here: http://www.provide.net/~cfh/fender.html#specs

all the best,

R

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: March 31st, 2009, 6:22 pm 
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danomite64 wrote:
That's the '69 P-bass that Elderly Music had, right? I'm assuming the neck was refinished, because that headstock decal is wrong for a '69.



Yes that's right!
They told me the body was refinished but not the neck. I think the neck has been refinished as well that is why the decal is wrong for the year. The finish seems too clean for a 40 years old bass on the pics. I'm just hoping it is not a reissue neck !!!
I'm hoping they used a Logo from the late 50's instead, but it is hard to know. The other thing is the stamped "B" on the neck which is weird for the year,but may be it is just " Frankeinstein" in the Fender way of making left-handed instruments at that time. I should have the bass in a few days,I know it is not a Vintage investment but a player's dream ;-).

Any infos about oddities about left-handed vintage P-Bass or Jazz Bass would be greatly appreciate for me and every lefties out there,

Sly

Sly


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: March 31st, 2009, 6:29 pm 
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Rodent wrote:
you might find this interesting ...

Quote:
The 1969 to 1980 Neck Stamps.
This information was documented and written by Greg Gagliano, and was published in a 1998 article in 20th Century Guitar magazine.

About 150 Fenders made between 1967 and 1980 were examined. Of these, less than half had useable information. In most cases, the stamp was smudged beyond legibility or the stamps were incomplete. Many guitars had no stamped codes at all. Some guitars simply had the model name, such as "MUSTANG" stamped on the butt end of the neck in green or red ink.

This means two things for the owner of a 1969 to 1980 Fender. First, the chances of having an intact stamped code is about 50/50. Second, the dataset for making conclusions is relatively small and therefore, subject to change as new information surfaces. However, the interpretation of the two date code systems appears to be relatively straight forward and the conclusions were confirmed by pickup dates and pot dates in most cases.

The 1969 to 1971 Neck Stamps Explained.
This information was provided by Greg Gagliano. The neck stamp used from 1969 to 1971 can be extracted by working from the outside inward. For example, let’s take Telecaster Thinline (s/n 272207) with the code: 3320119B. Starting a the right we have the letter B. This appears to be the same neck width code that Fender had been using since 1962. The next digit denotes the year, in this case 9 = 1969. The next one or two digits denote the month, in this case 11 = November. The first one or two digits of the code, in this case 3, denotes the model. For Telecasters, Telecaster Thinlines, and Esquires that code is 3. For Stratocasters it is 22 and for Precision Basses it is 5. The other three digits (320) are perhaps some kind of batch or lot number. It could also be the number of instruments of this type produced for that month, but I would suspect Fender could make more than 999 of any one instrument type in a month. Hence it is probably a batch or lot number.

Here’s our P-Bass again (s/n 277983) with the code 529129B. Breaking up the code we get:

5 = code for Precision Bass
291 = batch or lot code
2 = February
9 = 1969
B = 1 5/8 inch neck width (correct for a ’69 P-Bass).


Quote:
Neck Width.
From March 1962 to 1969, Fender marked their necks with an "official" neck width letter at the butt of the neck (in front of the date code). The "B" neck width is the normal width, as used on about 99% of all Fenders from this period. All other sizes were available by special order only. Also all pre-1962 Fender necks have a 1 5/8" nut width (though I'm sure there are some exceptions, but none I have seen).

A = 1 1/2" wide at the nut.
B = 1 5/8" wide at the nut (normal size).
C = 1 3/4" wide at the nut.
D = 1 7/8" wide at the nut.


found here: http://www.provide.net/~cfh/fender.html#specs

all the best,

R


Wow this is very interesting! BUT where the codes are coming from ???
I don't understand why there are some contradictions from the Fender book. I'm looking forward to get other books from Fender people,and may be have some infos about about the way lefties were built at the time,

Sly


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: April 1st, 2009, 11:53 am 
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Location: Tampa, FL
slybass3000 wrote:
danomite64 wrote:
That's the '69 P-bass that Elderly Music had, right? I'm assuming the neck was refinished, because that headstock decal is wrong for a '69.


I'm hoping they used a Logo from the late 50's instead, but it is hard to know.


I'm 100% sure that Fender did not put that decal on that neck in 1969. I do, however, believe the neck is a '69 Fender neck; it's just been refinished. All you have to do is take a tuner off and see if the finish has a big rust stain to tell if it's original.

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 Post subject: Re: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: April 1st, 2009, 1:52 pm 
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Location: Montreal, Quebec
danomite64 wrote:
slybass3000 wrote:
danomite64 wrote:
That's the '69 P-bass that Elderly Music had, right? I'm assuming the neck was refinished, because that headstock decal is wrong for a '69.


I'm hoping they used a Logo from the late 50's instead, but it is hard to know.


I'm 100% sure that Fender did not put that decal on that neck in 1969. I do, however, believe the neck is a '69 Fender neck; it's just been refinished. All you have to do is take a tuner off and see if the finish has a big rust stain to tell if it's original.



Good Call !!!

Sly


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2009, 10:31 am 
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....I'd personally like to believe Fender had a big parts bin full of lefty pieces and would knock out the odd lefty body and use whatever was lying around the factory, therefore my '76 P is really a mid 60's neck meets mid 70's !!! Anyway...


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: April 4th, 2009, 7:08 pm 
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mxm wrote:
....I'd personally like to believe Fender had a big parts bin full of lefty pieces and would knock out the odd lefty body and use whatever was lying around the factory, therefore my '76 P is really a mid 60's neck meets mid 70's !!! Anyway...



How did you find that out for your bass?

Sly


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: April 8th, 2009, 11:22 am 
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slybass3000 wrote:
mxm wrote:
....I'd personally like to believe Fender had a big parts bin full of lefty pieces and would knock out the odd lefty body and use whatever was lying around the factory, therefore my '76 P is really a mid 60's neck meets mid 70's !!! Anyway...



How did you find that out for your bass?

Sly



Sorry, I was being flippant - but I dare say some bits on my '76 p may pre-date the official year of production.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about Fender Vintage necks
PostPosted: April 8th, 2009, 11:47 am 
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It's common knowledge that Fender often kept parts around, sometimes for years, pending assembly on some instruments, and this is especially true with lefties where orders were so few. Having said that, it can be extremely difficult to determine a parts bass from a "real" parts bass assembled by Fender.


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